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TobiasAmaranth
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Posted on 06-27-15, 05:37 am
blarg
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Since overall it seems like there's a definite need for something beyond NSMBW, and even Newer for level creation support, I want to start getting people's opinions about what they need for their hacks, what they feel is missing, and talking about the best way to accomplish everything in as varied of a form as possible. Keep in mind that I am a definite 'realist' when it comes to this stuff. I don't dream big, nor do I tend to entertain ideas of such nature. I want this to be created to fix existing issues, and created in a way where it can be expanded as needed.
What is USMBW?
Starting off, USMBW is the codename for the 'successor' to Newer. It does not consist of new levels, but instead aims to restructure the game in a way that provides the maximum amount of support for the end-users of both level creation and playing custom levels. It stands for Ultimate Super Mario Bros Wii.
Ultimate:
Being or happening at the end of a process; final.
Being the best or most extreme example of its kind.
Basic or fundamental.
Denoting the maximum possible strength or resistance beyond which an object breaks.
The goal of the project is to create something with the maximum amount of flexibility, and greatest ease of use. It will also likely be the final rewrite of Wii Mario game modifications, allowing for evolution of its features while ensuring compatibility in even the oldest of levels created for it. Instead of being designed for a single hack project and creating a 'game' experience, it will be aimed towards the support of Individual Levels, and level packs or 'Campaigns'.
Structure Changes
Many elements of the game will be stripped down to a basic form and reconstructed. From the way the game is launched, and levels are started, to the fundamental elements of the game itself like 'Only 482 sprites' and '16 nybbles', many elements of NSMBW will be changed by this project. These changes will bring new flexibility and expansion of potential features.
1. Sprite Table Expansion: The current limit of 482 sprites has been around since the beginning. One of the goals will be to allow for a much larger list of possible sprites. This will allow any fully original sprite to be created and amended to the end of the table, allowing feature parity with expanding version numbers. The limit will be increased to a comfortable number and can be further expanded if needed. With new custom sprites being added at the end, it will be even easier to identify which sprites are original versus those that are new creations. Additionally, there will be times where a custom sprite will need changed in a way that will break pre-existing versions of that sprite. In these cases, a new copy of the sprite will be added to the list, and the old one will be marked as Obsolete.
2. Event Table Expansion: The current limit of 64 events has posed a large problem for many who sought to create dynamic, visually surprising levels. While many features were added in Newer to help extend the freedom of the effect of events, the event limit has proven to be a moderate issue for level designers. One of the goals will be to allow the full range of events for most-to-all of the existing sprites. This means that the event table will be changed from u64 to u256. Now, you will have access to 255 events. Additionally, the plan is to allow for a range of events towards the end of that table to function on a world level, so that Campaigns have a new tool at their disposal. This feature is planned to span somewhere between 25 and 32 events, around 225-255. The status of these events will be stored in a way that is held across all levels, and will even be able to affect the contents of the Campaign Maps.
3. Sprite Settings Expansion: The current limit of 12 nybbles for sprite settings can often cause design of new sprites to struggle. One of the goals will be to expand this from the current 4-Event, 8-Settings, 4-Zone Data into a planned 4-Event, 12-Settings, 4-Special Data, 4-Zone Data, 4-ActorSpawner format. This change especially will mean that any level designed with the USMBW system will be unable to function in anything older, even if custom content is not used. Special Data = 2 nybbles fully dedicated to a color/retexture system, explained further below, and 2 nybbles fully dedicated to resizing feature, either as a single list or as a dual-option list (not finalized). ActorSpawner = Due to the complexity of the Actor Spawner, and the need for it to spawn all available sprites with any setting, there will be 4 nybbles dedicated to the spawn list, and one additional feature such as a delay factor (not finalized).
4. Model Replacement and Texture Expansion: Many mods often want to replace models to give their own unique flavor to the game beyond just custom tilesets. This can sometimes be as simple as a recolored enemy, and sometimes it's an entirely different look to an existing enemy. NewerSMBW makes use of many different textures, and one of the goals will be to ensure that, in Campaign mode, modders can still apply their own non-approved model replacements. The current plan is to utilize a 256 List, as mentioned in Sprite Settings. This list will contain the USMBW variants (approved) and will contain 16 dummy slots assigned to F0-FF. These slots will never be used by USMBW, so modders can replace them for their own Campaign-specific textures. Campaigns will then be capable of loading alternate versions of specified .arc files.
5. Star Coin Expansion: One thing that I've often seen people ask if we can do is allow for there to be 5 Star Coins, to simulate Super Mario World's Dragon Coins. This is certainly possible, and while it will require edits to the various sprites involving the Star Coin, it's one of the planned features. This will become a new Level setting, and you can enable it to change the level from supporting 3 Star Coins to supporting 5 Star Coins. There's also a potential to allow any number from 0 to 5. It's unlikely that support will be added for more than 5.
6. Midpoint Expansion: Something that was used in NSMBU, there will be attempted support for multiple Midpoint flags (4 or 8) within a single level. This can allow users to create marathon length levels without them being too punishing. This feature may not make the cut, but it's one of our starting goals.
7. Tileset Expansion: This is another feature that may not actually be successfully added in, but we will be researching a change that may allow a 5th tileset to be included. It will depend on if the game runs okay with reduced padding on the tileset texture or not.
New User Interface / Game Flow
Currently, in order for end-users to play individual levels, they must replace a level in either NSMBW or Newer, or develop their own world map. Neither of these things feel very good to both the level creator as well as the ones playing their levels. Flavor will often end up being forced, or there will be a daunting task ahead of them beyond that of just learning the editor and having fun making levels.
Because there's a lot to go over with how the user interface functions and flows, I'm going to simply start from the point where you will turn on the console, and boot up the game.
1. Profile Selection: Because the new format for playing levels doesn't really run on your typical save file setup, we want to ensure that you can at least have multiple save files coexisting at the same time, for the different groups of friends that you might choose to play with. Here, we plan to allow you to pick between three profiles. This is akin to choosing your save file for NSMBW/Newer, except that it applies to all levels. On this screen, you can choose to completely wipe a profile's data, and possibly to copy it as well. Once you have finished selecting your profile, you will enter another screen with another choice.
2. Number of Players / Character Selection: This is mostly unchanged, though research may be done on allowing you to pick a different main character than Mario. It will depend on any side-effects such as player representation on the world map.
3. Individual Levels vs Campaign: The next screen you'll enter to will have you choose between Individual Levels, and Campaigns. Each choice will lead you to a differently structured screen.
4a. Individual Levels: Now we're at the meat of it. Inside of the Individual Levels list, you will be able to choose from a list of level files that have been loaded from a specific folder within the SD card. There may or may not be subfolder navigation within this section. Alongside each individual level, you will get...
Level Name
Creator Name
Number of Lives - The assigned number of starting lives before you will be have any midpoint data wiped.
Available 'Level Flags' - Will only appear if the level setting says they exist.
-Normal Exit
-Secret Exit
-Collectible Star Challenge
-Star Coins (3 or 5)
You can see your current progress within that save profile for the individual level. Each level will have a unique identifier that will separate it from other levels within your save data. How this unique ID is generated is still in planning. You can also choose to clear the individual level's save data.
5a. Starting an Individual Level: Once you have selected an Individual Level to play, you will be given one more choice. Because there is no inventory system for Individual Levels, each player will be allowed to choose from a starting Power-up based on what is made available by the Level itself. This will likely only apply for the first time the level is started, and not when the player dies within the level. From within the level, the players will continue until they either run out of lives, or complete one of the level exit conditions. If they run out of lives, Game Over will return them to the Level Selection menu and they will be able to try again. If they reach the exit, secret exit, or complete the Collection Star Challenge, the appropriate level clear flags will be set and saved, and the player will be returned to Level Selection.
4b. Campaigns: Inside of the Campaign list, you will be able to choose from a selection of level packs or world maps. Each Campaign will be constructed from a set of folder contents that has been constructed by the Campaign Project Creator, and a main Campaign File that manages everything. As with Individual Levels, there will be information displayed before you start the Campaign, and you can wipe Campaign save data individually.
Campaign Name
Creator (Team) Name
Number of Lives Per Player (?)
Number of Current / Maximum Star Coins
Number of Current / Maximum Exits (Combined Normal / Secret?) - Thoughts on this? Some mods will want to leave such information as a surprise, but I'm not currently sure how we can give scope of completion while also keeping a sense of mystery. Not knowing when you were done with Newer until it told you that you were done was part of the fun.
Definitely interested in hearing what everyone thinks the Campaign listing should share about your completion, and potential solutions for how to obfuscate the displayed data. For example, one 'action' within a world map might be to modify the maximum data upon reaching certain conditions.
5b. Starting a Campaign: Once you have selected a Campaign to play, there will be two things that can happen. Either the campaign has a world map, or it does not. This is something Treeki came up with and I fully support the design philosophy. It's very old school and likely easy to accomplish, and can take a burden off of the player to create a world map alongside their Campaign idea.
6a. Auto-Advance Campaigns: Within an Auto-Advance Campaign, levels will play sequentially in the same fashion as the original Super Mario Bros. You reach a goal pole, and the next level will play. Inventory features could potentially exist as something that happens between levels, but overall it would be a more classic and generally cleaner experience to have levels designed with this playstyle to simply advance immediately to the next. Power-up state would be preserved between levels, there is no backtracking, and secret exits could function as level warps. The player can save and quit at any time, and resume with their current lives after the last level they completed.
6b. World Map Campaigns: This consists of your typical Newer hack arrangement. You have a custom world, you unlock new levels based on conditions, your power-up state is preserved between levels, you have an inventory with items earned from gameplay and special levels if they are provided, etc. Note: The exact features planned for this are still somewhat undecided, so suggestions of things you'd like to see as possibilities are welcome. For example, one of my suggestions is that the blue level dots be removed as a requirement for denoting a level. This would allow replacement with, say, the flashing dots from Super Mario World to exist instead. Also, I want to have the World class Events be potential triggers for path and object triggering. Save and Quit will also likely be an option available through the world menu at all times.
Going Back to Basics
One important thing to point out is that levels built with Newer assets will NOT be compatible with USMBW. We will be constructing USMBW from scratch, and any custom modifications that were made for Newer will have to be recreated and cleanly merged into the USMBW project. With only a few exceptions due to hardcoding issues, all NSMBW retail levels should remain functional and playable with USMBW.
Once the main structure for USMBW is completed, we will begin making sprite data modifications to bring over support for the most dynamic sprites and features that Newer utilized, and then from there, further expand as needed bringing new versions with new content. Our apologies, but full support for ~everything~ that Newer offers will likely never be available for USMBW, as many features relied on hardcoding. This is especially true for much of the story elements and things like the title screen. However, if there is enough demand for a particular feature, it's likely that we will be able to come up with a sprite to make it happen in some way.
Custom Content
One more thing... Custom Content. There are two types of custom content with the USMBW system.
One is 'approved' custom content which has been integrated into the official USMBW download pack. This will include high quality textures and model swap options, high quality tilesets, and high quality Mario Themed music. Only approved custom content can be used in Individual Levels.
Let me state it again so that everyone understands this from the start: Only approved custom content will be allowed when creating Individual Levels.
There are several reasons for this restriction. The first is the ease of implementation. It's not an excuse, but it's simply much cleaner to have Individual Levels only accessing content from a single folder of replacement content. The second is that the design restrictions of utilizing the original content will lead to a stronger focus on actual level creation instead of simply trying to make your levels 'shiny'. Don't use custom content as a crutch.
Over time, new assets will be added into USMBW from mods that allow the project to utilize their assets. This will happen most frequently when someone creates a memorable mod project that other people start to want to make derivative and follow-up creations for. USMBW will continue to be expanded, so this restriction isn't especially restricting.
The other type of custom content applies specifically to Campaigns. Because Campaigns are much more likely to need custom content, the method for packaging a Campaign will use scripts to generate a folder structure that the game will use to apply all custom content in a way that overrides any future USMBW package updates. This means that if you add in a new Goomba texture (Color Slot F0), your will be given a chance to assign your Kuribo.arc as custom content. It will then be placed in a /Models/ folder within the /XJES/ Campaign folder, which would also contain your level arcs in /Levels/, your custom music in /Music/, and all of your tilesets in /Tiles/. Or at least, something along these lines. The campaign file will then tell the game that when it tries to get those files, to use the ones in the campaign folder first, instead of the ones packaged with USMBW.
Note: When updating your Campaign after an USMBW update, to use new tileset or model features, you will need to reconstruct your tileset or model.arc file.
How can I help?
Right now, the big thing we need is for those that helped out in Newer's ASM level hacking to return to the scene and lend a hand with getting the core systems set up. The secondary steps are to clean up the tools in which we edit our levels, tilesets, and world maps. We need better tools for creating and saving animated tileset pieces, and the world map tool will need to be converted into a campaign tool that will manage the assets of the campaigns.
I've been hard at work for the past month on cleaning up the categories and sprite data for a better end-user experience, and I could also use a hand at ironing out some of the things I found that I was unsure about the full function of. Right now, I'm editing for Newer data, but I will go back through and strip it down to NSMBW, which will be very easy to maintain using USMBW's system.
How long will this take???
This is not going to be a fast project. It may take as long to create as Newer did, if only because the main ASM person, Treeki, does not have the free time that he used to have when he was assisting Newer. However, this project is something that we understand the scene needs. If you want it sooner, spread word around to those who would be capable of code editing, UI creation, and tool creation. Aside from that, this will be ready when it's ready, and feel free to give suggestions on ways to improve.
PS: Custom Sprites will be worried about deeper into development. There are many 'core function' sprites that are planned to improve flexibility in level design like how Newer has the improved Tile God, the Special Event, the Actor Spawner, and the Effects Spawner. Quite a few others are being designed and planned out to take advantage of the research we have gained over the years. Look forward to it. 
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H1dd3nM1nd
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:04 am
blarg
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 Ptooie I'm not a privacy fanatic 😡
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For approved custom content, if you want i have a 700+ tileset pack, would you like to have it to choose what you think should be put in ?
Beware : tilesets have been renamed (only externally)
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TobiasAmaranth
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:11 am
blarg
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Might be nice to look through once we're at the point of assembling such things.  Still a fair ways off on that, but feel free to bring that up again later. /approve
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H1dd3nM1nd
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:15 am
blarg
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Ptooie I'm not a privacy fanatic 😡
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Would it be hard to add secret button combinations to activate some secrets. Also, i'd like to see a fixed replay recorder, so you could add a replay section for each level (also in campaigns) with details, like completion time (in-game seconds), type of exit, number of players etc.
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TobiasAmaranth
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:20 am
blarg
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I actually forgot about that secret. Replays are pretty cool, it might be fun to be able to do more with them. Maybe be able to load replay files from a list attached to a specific level or something. As megazig put it, though, a feature like that is icing. Gotta make the cake first. I'll definitely make a note of it, though.
As for other secrets, I think I'd say 'no' for this type of thing. That's akin to cheats, unless the secrets were a world file setting on whether they were enabled or not. Even then, we'd have to see what sort of demand for it there was. I doubt anything like that will be added for USMBW, though it's neat that they were able to add it for Newer.
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Grop
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:27 am
blarg
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Administrator
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Whoah, massive post. Anyways, I think USMBW is a great idea. As for the campaign selection screen, I don't think knowing how many levels are left decreases the amount of fun you have playing such a campaign. I'd say a [completed exits]/[all exits] is best for displaying progress. An alternative way it to show something that looks like a loading bar, but gets filled more as you complete more of the game. A last option is to not show progress at all. This could even be a setting in that campaign manager you talked about.
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Python
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Posted on 06-27-15, 09:22 am
blarg
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ONMYOU!The Positive and Negative
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This sounds simply fabulous indeed. I'm somewhat glad that it'll take long, so I won't have to worry of porting over NA2 to use USMBW's campaign feature. 
I certainly like the idea of non-world map based campaigns following the SMB style. And something I love even more are the expansions on event limitations and the midway point flag and animated tileset support, since these things are what I personally have long longed for.
Since there are probably people (hi), who don't want to use the classical Mario story where Peach gets kidnapped, are you planning on expanding on storyline-based elements for campaigns, such as cutscenes?
And while I see the point of the custom content restriction on Individual Levels, if anything like a level design contest ever happens again, that restriction might quite the burden. For example, for participating in a NSMBW level design contest on another site, I created a snowy version of Newer's Sakura Village tileset to use with the level. If this contest had taken place after USMBW was made, I'd first have to submit that tileset, wait for it to get integrated into the update and only then I could actually submit my level, which would be annoying, unless I'm missing something here. |
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TobiasAmaranth
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blarg
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Looking forward to more feedback on what everyone wants to see for Campaign save file progress.
Mr. Alpha, you like changing your name. At least I can better keep track of this alias. It's even got a capital letter! But yeah, SMB level progression was Treeki's idea and it seems like a good method for chaining levels together without needing a world map, and event limitations is something many of us would like to adjust. 1-32 will be staying Level-Wide, 33-225 would be Zone-Wide, and 226-255 would be World-Wide.
Midway flags is something we'll have to look into but we know it's a very in-demand feature. I mean, you'll still be limited to 4 areas, but it'll be interesting to see what people come up with if we can get it working.
Animated Tileset support is something that should have been made several years ago, but that's going to hinge on tool makers moreso than Treeki's fine efforts. It's definitely one of the project's goals though, to find someone to bring the tileset tool up to the level of function expected of the new tools.
Cutscene-related stuff will be a matter of sprite changes, and right now we're focused on big system changes, level data, and world features. That's the groundwork. Sprites will come later, and we do have quite a few nice ones planned such as a proper level exit controller, an improved actor spawner, new features for the tile god, the collection star, and a palace block controller to change the hardcoded Switch Palace stuff to something more... flexible. But you've probably heard about most of those.
Ideally, I would say that USMBW level contests should offer a world map to help steer the flavor, or they should simply require USMBW Patch X content only to make it actually about the levels themselves and not secondary creation skills. But yeah, Campaigns don't have to be 50 levels to be a Campaign. They can be a single level if they choose to. It's just a different type of structure.
I should also point out that the hub for activity on stuff is in the #RVLution channel.
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H1dd3nM1nd
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blarg
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Ptooie I'm not a privacy fanatic 😡
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The multiple Midway Flag would be useful for my 12 theme level 
Also, what about forcing a specific (or multiple) number of players, like :
Only 1/2 players, 3/4 not allowed
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orthoptera
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Posted on 06-27-15, 04:02 pm
blarg
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 Ninji Abnormal user
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I agree with most of these ideas, and I'm especially excited about multiple checkpoints, but I'm not so sure about the restriction on custom content. If I had a single level that I really wanted to use my own custom content with, would I just make it a Campaign? If so, that's all right, but if one-level Campaigns are discouraged, I think you should change the restriction.
Also, a new feature I'd like to suggest: being able to download levels/Campaigns from within the game. It would be sort of like RiiFS, except the data would be saved to the SD card so it would be just like you had downloaded it and put it there from a computer. I can envision the new file depot functioning as a server for this. I don't think it would be too hard on the server side; like I said, it would be similar to RiiFS, but it would take some work on the Wii side.
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sonic1000
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blarg
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 Beezo Banned permanently: You just love leaking shit that you don't have permission to, don't you?
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What about a feature where you can create your own cutscenes, there can be a controller where you can set paths that controls where Mario (or Mario and co.) will walk (or run).
Then at the end of the path you can set different actions that they can do.
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H1dd3nM1nd
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Posted on 06-27-15, 07:17 pm
blarg
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Ptooie I'm not a privacy fanatic 😡
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Or... just set an animation to play. But that's very hard programming, lets see what they'll be able to pull off
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TobiasAmaranth
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:46 pm
blarg
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Having a Player Number Requirement flag for Individual Levels is definitely a possibility. I was thinking about something like that, myself. Supporting it for Campaigns might be possible, too, but really in both cases, it just depends on how players are able to add and drop. I don't remember how things currently function due to rarely playing multiplayer. But technical wise, displaying only levels meant for the current number of players is very feasible.
Yes, you would need to use a Campaign for the single level if you insisted on using personally created custom content for it. But honestly, if you're using that type of custom content, you should make 3-4 levels with that custom content to fully show it off, rather than a single overly large level. Individual Levels are meant to encourage creation of straight-up level content, and not meant to encourage playing around with the other custom elements. "Build the best you can with the tools already available." Don't worry, there will be plenty to do with just the default stuff.
Wifi downloading of levels, while not planned, will be discussed. Wifi features are experiencing new growth and discovery including the ability to network with other Wiis. When it comes time for such features, we will see where that growth is at, and what we can add to promote Depot connectivity as well as maybe even multiplayer.
It's much more likely that instead of creating cutscenes, we copy the bosses in a way that separates them from hardcoded mechanics like level completion and cinematic activation. Instead, they would be set to trigger a specific event when being defeated, which would then allow use of the level exit controller and other creation or spawning or gameplay.
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Akidus
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Posted on 06-27-15, 08:57 pm
blarg
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well yeah, stop posting the same shit over and over again and actually leave
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I think that 5 star coins is too many. The other ideas are great though. Especially the 5th tileset.
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Kinnay
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blarg
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 Iggy Koopa Global moderator
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One thing I would love to have is the possibility to destroy sprites when a certain event is triggered. This could be another field in the sprite data.
edit: The actor spawner already does this, so ignore this suggestion
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Springtrap
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Posted on 06-27-15, 10:57 pm
blarg
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 Red Super Koopa Call Me "Nightmare"
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Huge Post, Huge Idea! Good Luck!
I am your worst Nightmare!
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Danster
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Posted on 06-28-15, 12:54 am
blarg
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 Giant Red Koopa King Infinity Of The Sacred Lands Eternal Dream World, Paradoxical Nightmare & Danster Galaxy
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Do you take suggestions? Hopefully.
I have an idea for a very useful sprite mainly for events.
It combines sprites like the event controllers, activators,
Deactivaters, event loopers, ect. It is basically a sprite that
Combines all related event controllers like I mentioned before.
Possible names:
Reggie
Event God Event Tool
Event God
Noobinator
Copy and paste, dude. Copy and paste.
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Grop
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Posted on 06-28-15, 08:43 am
blarg
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Administrator
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Why would you need that?
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H1dd3nM1nd
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Posted on 06-28-15, 09:36 am
blarg
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Ptooie I'm not a privacy fanatic 😡
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And now people are becoming overambitious...
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The Red Eagle
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Posted on 06-28-15, 12:41 pm
blarg
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 Flurry Spread the Red.
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Great idea guys! Good luck with this!
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