Well. I'm currently at the point where a replacement for the Depot is the biggest hurdle to tackle before RVLution 2.0 can be launched using my new board software.
With that in mind.. I've been thinking about this for the past couple of weeks on-and-off, and I just can't come up with a concrete plan for what I want to do. Maybe writing this out will help my brain magically put this together... Anyhow, I'd love comments on this.
Categories:
The current Depot accepts levels and tilesets. That's it. I'd like to extend this with Music, Backgrounds, Re-Textures and a Misc category for other things, whatever they may be.
I think this should cover everything you could add to NSMBW content-wise... but I don't know what I want to do about larger hacks.
Ideally, I'd love to have a way to showcase full projects on the Depot. Things like Newer, Another, Cannon, etc. But I really don't know how to make this work well. I don't want to shoehorn them into the simple "read a description, see some screenshots, download a single file" format that the current Depot supports- this doesn't do justice to larger projects.
But what should I do instead...?
Screenshots:
Right now, we have auto generated screenshots. These look like ass. They work well for tilesets, but not levels.
I think the best solution may be to allow people to upload their own screenshots. This raises a couple of issues, though:
- At the moment, only people using Dolphin OR a capture card can take screenshots. This is not satisfactory. I'm thinking about putting together a patch which will allow you to press a specific button ingame - B, perhaps? - and have a screenshot saved to the SD card. And no, taking a photo of your TV does not count.
- Thumbnails. I don't expect all uploaded screenshots to be the same aspect ratio - in particular, some people may end up taking screenshots of levels from Reggie - and I need to come up with some way to resize them so they look good on the lists.
Ratings:
Not really sure what to do in this regard. The current 0-10 system sucks. At one point I was thinking about dropping this down to 5 different choices (hate / dislike / neutral / like / love)... this makes ratings a bit more approachable IMO, but it doesn't solve the core issue where an average score has to be built somehow, and submissions with very small amounts of ratings can have insanely high scores.
Maybe I should make scores on submissions only take effect after 10 votes have been received, or something like that?
Comments:
I could either roll a comments system used only for Depot submissions.. or I could rig something up so that Depot submissions automatically get their own forum threads (invisible from the forum interface, mind you) and comments are handled as replies to those threads.
I already use a system like this for PMs; they are just special threads which are only viewable by specified participants. So there's precedent for that.
I'm pretty sure the latter would be a better idea; it would save me having to implement things like moderation, notifications (threads are already followable), reports/flagging and such again for comments ...
Welp. I think I've covered mostly everything there.
I would really love comments and suggestions on this, because I can't begin working on it without deciding these things :x _________________________
I think iTunes does this, you could basically make it so that large projects have their own mini-pages with custom color-schemes and backgrounds. That would be super cool, but I imagine it would be hard to do.
EDIT: I think that the 0-10 rating system could be replaced by a 0-5 star sort of thing. Maybe you could even make it so that the more stars a user gets, the more "popular" they become. _________________________
Concerning showcasing full hack:
No ideas whatsoever.
Concerning ratings:
I say make it like this: ratings give points, so Hate= -4 Dislike= -2 and a~ not bad, not great=0 like=2 love=4 and just let the number increase/decrease, don't make it stop at 10. Also I'd like it if wen you rate you would HAVE TO write a little note saying why you gave it the rating you did, and I'd like it if the one that uploaded the submission could view who rating his/her's submission, what they rated, and why, so if trolls just rate yours hate they'd probably just write something like ngcngf, thus, you could tell if that's what they actually thought of the submission or if it's just trolling. And I'd like it if mods/admans could view the same things as the uploader, except mods/admanx can delete ratings if they believe that rating was simply trolling.
Concerning comments:
I say keep it the same except add three new buttons, let's say I left a comment, I'd like it if I could have the option to edit/delete it, and the third button, troll comment, I'd like it if you could rate any comment as troll comment, wants a comment has ten troll comment ratings it would either be deleted, or be hidden.
On the topic of screenshots: I've managed to implement a thing into NSMBW where pressing the B button saves one to the SD card in PNG format. It's quite nifty, I think.
The only issue is that due to how the Wii GPU works, it appears horizontally squashed. Implementing a scaling algorithm is beyond my current capabilities, so I'll have to figure out something. :| Here's an example: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4558613/SkawoScreenshot.png
And also, if you take a screenshot in non-widescreen mode, the black bars appear at the top and bottom.. since it's just a dump of what's visible on the screen at the exact time you press the button.
Posted by $CodyKing$
Also I'd like it if wen you rate you would HAVE TO write a little note saying why you gave it the rating you did, and I'd like it if the one that uploaded the submission could view who rating his/her's submission, what they rated, and why, so if trolls just rate yours hate they'd probably just write something like ngcngf, thus, you could tell if that's what they actually thought of the submission or if it's just trolling. And I'd like it if mods/admans could view the same things as the uploader, except mods/admanx can delete ratings if they believe that rating was simply trolling.
Requiring a message for ratings sounds like a decent idea. However, I don't know if it's a good idea to show who made specific ratings because it might put people off from voting. (Mods would still be able to view that info.)
Posted by $CodyKing$
I say keep it the same except add three new buttons, let's say I left a comment, I'd like it if I could have the option to edit/delete it, and the third button, troll comment, I'd like it if you could rate any comment as troll comment, wants a comment has ten troll comment ratings it would either be deleted, or be hidden.
Hiding comments automatically after 10 (or however many) "troll votes" sounds like a recipe for disaster... people could abuse that quite easily. However, I will be adding reports/flagging so that you can send individual comments for moderator review. _________________________
I like the screenshot thing, Treeki. Sounds better than slow Dolphin. :lol:
For the most part, I agree with Cody. There should be a "report troll comment" button so the mods can look at it. Then if it was a troll comment, the rating would be removed from the average. _________________________
I've managed to implement a thing into NSMBW where pressing the B button saves one to the SD card in PNG format. It's quite nifty, I think.
The only issue is that due to how the Wii GPU works, it appears horizontally squashed. Implementing a scaling algorithm is beyond my current capabilities, so I'll have to figure out something. :| Here's an example: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4558613/SkawoScreenshot.png
And also, if you take a screenshot in non-widescreen mode, the black bars appear at the top and bottom.. since it's just a dump of what's visible on the screen at the exact time you press the button.
Wow , that sounds pretty good, and the screenshot isn't that squashed to me . So wen it takes a screenshot is it in HD? As well if you shouldn't find a way to make it not squashed I say still release it, it'd still be good for screenshots and it'd be good for taking screenshots of bugs from Newer .
Posted by Tree
Posted by Cody
Also I'd like it if wen you rate you would HAVE TO write a little note saying why you gave it the rating you did, and I'd like it if the one that uploaded the submission could view who rating his/her's submission, what they rated, and why, so if trolls just rate yours hate they'd probably just write something like ngcngf, thus, you could tell if that's what they actually thought of the submission or if it's just trolling. And I'd like it if mods/admans could view the same things as the uploader, except mods/admanx can delete ratings if they believe that rating was simply trolling.
Requiring a message for ratings sounds like a decent idea. However, I don't know if it's a good idea to show who made specific ratings because it might put people off from voting. (Mods would still be able to view that info.)
Well, your the Tree, so, do what you think is best.
Posted by Tree
Posted by Cody
I say keep it the same except add three new buttons, let's say I left a comment, I'd like it if I could have the option to edit/delete it, and the third button, troll comment, I'd like it if you could rate any comment as troll comment, wants a comment has ten troll comment ratings it would either be deleted, or be hidden.
Hiding comments automatically after 10 (or however many) "troll votes" sounds like a recipe for disaster... people could abuse that quite easily. However, I will be adding reports/flagging so that you can send individual comments for moderator review.
Well, I was just thinking something along the lines of what YT has, still, I think something where people can sort of moderate it them selfs would be good.
Posted by Tree
I could either roll a comments system used only for Depot submissions.. or I could rig something up so that Depot submissions automatically get their own forum threads (invisible from the forum interface, mind you) and comments are handled as replies to those threads.
Doesn't sound like a half bad idea having submission like thread, although, I'd like it if you could see the given screenshot without having to view the thread. Also is the site going to be black :| ? From this screenshot it looks like that :| , I'd much rather it be something a BIT more bright. Of course, that's just a personal preference. _________________________
Unfortunately, I cannot work miracles. The Wii still only renders in SD.
Posted by $CodyKing$
Doesn't sound like a half bad idea having submission like thread, although, I'd like it if you could see the given screenshot without having to view the thread.
Yep, that will definitely be possible.. Submissions won't behave exactly like threads, I will just be treating them that way behind the scenes to reduce duplicated work.
There'll be extra stuff at the top of the page to deal with downloads/screenshots/ratings, and I'll probably strip down the post boxes a bit to make the comments view more compact.
The lists of submissions will look similar to what exists on the current Depot, so you will see screenshots and ratings and all that stuff, don't worry :p
Posted by $CodyKing$
Also is the site going to be black :| ? From this screenshot it looks like that :| , I'd much rather it be something a BIT more bright. Of course, that's just a personal preference.
There will be a light theme (a bit more similar to the current board) available to use when the site is launched, or shortly afterwards. I personally like dark but I don't expect that everyone will -- I'm just waiting until I have more of the software finalised before I begin work on extra themes. _________________________
Ratings: I think that the mods and whoever they appoint should be considered 'ideal voters' and that no one should be able to rate a submission before they do. After that, whoever votes close to the first rating (which will be invisible to the public and not counted) will automatically earn 'voter reliability' points. Everyone will start with a very small number of said points, and the more you have the more your rating effects the average.
Big projects: I think that project leaders should have limited customization over their pages. _________________________
I like the hate / dislike / neutral / like / love system.
Somehow implement weighted votes. If the user leaves a comment on why they rated something the way they did, then a mod will read it and +1 it or approve/accept it or something, which adds weight to the vote and the user's future votes.
Depot ideas:
the depot can have a recommended section, which is created by checking what people on your Friends list like, and/or takes into account votes by people that like similar things you like... if that makes sense.
Comments:
best to mimic the PM system of hidden-from-index forum threads. Moderation needed but perhaps only via reports?
Screenshots:
Cool implementation for NSMBW! Would it be possible to add some kind of flag/tag to the PNG that when uploaded to the server it would recognize it's a screenshot from your screenshot dumper and correct the aspect ratio if necessary upon completion of upload?
Categories:
Definitely needs expanding. Music is a good idea but will require heavy moderation. Submissions would need to be accompanied by Composer(s), Original Artist(s), Remixer(s), Title, etc... and before becoming public would have to be reviewed and accepted by a moderator. Accept .wav, .ogg, and .mp3, and use HTML5 Audio tag to allow streaming/previewing tracks. Not all browsers support all filetypes, so you'd need a Flash fallback or something.
If you manage to complete the C++ compiler and outsiders begin to create their own code hacks, you'll want a category for uploading .bins and/or source code files for them as well.
That's all I can think of at the moment. More may follow later. _________________________
Cool implementation for NSMBW! Would it be possible to add some kind of flag/tag to the PNG that when uploaded to the server it would recognize it's a screenshot from your screenshot dumper and correct the aspect ratio if necessary upon completion of upload?
That is not a bad idea, one other thing is that in some recording software or something like that. they can also be reduced in ratio, having this tool will be helpful. _________________________
Hey I make new super mario bros wii hacks like model hacks and level hacks.
I also texture hack mario kart wii.
maybe when it comes to the rating system, make it so, you cant rate it unless you have downloaded it first, and have had it for at least X amount of days, it will help stomp fake reviews by forcing them to come back later to leave a review and not just download and rate 5/5.. this would help get real reviews and not planted fakes..
maybe it could send you a PM after the X amount of days asking if you want to review the stage you downloaded?
also maybe your rating holds more weight if you have a level on the depot yourself and have voted on works by others, as opposed to one thats just a random download, which can help thwart phony reviews as well?
We can do the scaling ourselves. I usually post my screenshots in a small dimension, so not that different.
Some people have slow Dolphin. The only way to take screenshots would be to use a capture card, record gameplay, and select a frame and dump it. _________________________
Treeki, I was wondering if you could release the picture-taking patch so that people could use it for screenshots for projects?? _________________________
I remember when I gave you my suggestions for a better and fair rating system at the beginning of my appearence as joietyfull (should be more than two years ago). Do you still have this message :mrgreen: ?
Before I'm telling you my rating ideas I would want to give you a tip. If you still haven't done this I would recommend to make a list with all ideas for the rating system and check for every comment if there are new ideas or points which were already mentioned because I didn't compare my ideas with other ideas yet.
I suggested:
- people can't rate, if they haven't downloaded the content
- it should be visible publicly/privately on request (of the submitter) who rated what (so that trolls are more careful with what they do)
- people rating constantly or many times consecutively bad without a senseful justification should loose they permit to rate for a certain time frame
- the submitter should have the possibility to request that people have to comment, if they rate bad (at least 10 signs)
- in any case there should be a certain amount of rates which has to be reached to appear in the top list EDIT:
I still would want to suggest:
- let us remove or Change the rate for a submission, finally the submitter can change his submission, so why we shouldn't change our rate or remove it?
Finding a good way for the calculation of the total rate of a submission is very hard.
I first would say that very bad rates from people with rating ban (see point 3) count not as much as other rates but that shouldn't affect good rates.
I also think that we should make something similar to a points system (if we only would have 5 different rating possibilities anymore). That means rather no average system but every rate has a different value which is added (or subtracted) from the count (but I know this method would be not fair enough).
The least and very fair thing one can do is to show the different rates and their amount independently of the calculation or the raters' names to let the visiter decide how good it is at all (he surely can recognize if bad rates contradict the high amount of good rates). Another idea is that one just shows the rate which was rated mostly but depending on the case that wouldn't consider bad rates or good rates.
Eventually, I know that some ideas suck a bit and impair the equality or fair democratic principle but other ideas do that as well.
Concerning your rating idea:
I think your idea is really fine because there are people who wouldn't rate 10 at any time (including me :oops: ).
I only would replace "hate" because "hate" can be a really mean and exaggerated rate. Sometimes the level is only made badly or is submitted by a troll but that's no reason to hate it. I would suggest "don't like at all".
However, I love your idea to submit many different things, such as music and backgrounds .
-> I also read from rating points which should make rates better. In this case I would only recommend these points for the individual evaluation of different users so that other people can see how advanced one user is and how seriously he thinks. Thereby, a beginner should have 0 points. To see the difference between trolls and beginners, there should be negative points.
Other EDITS:
Posted by Jason
the depot can have a recommended section, which is created by checking what people on your Friends list like, and/or takes into account votes by people that like similar things you like... if that makes sense.
Generally no bad idea but please don't exaggerate it like Facebook and so on. Let us choose, if we would like to have this recommended section.
I think that the mods and whoever they appoint should be considered 'ideal voters' and that no one should be able to rate a submission before they do. After that, whoever votes close to the first rating (which will be invisible to the public and not counted) will automatically earn 'voter reliability' points. Everyone will start with a very small number of said points, and the more you have the more your rating effects the average.
Well, nice approach but at the end a bit too hard. The rates ago the rates of these "ideal voters" should be counted too. If there is some necessity these votes can be hidden till these ideal voters have rated.
Also, having the same opinion as a good designer is no criterium for a good rate. If anyone has a justified reason for a vote (and not the one that it's fun, rating bad) it's ok (that includes suggestions for improvements, if the rate is bad). By reference to these improvement suggestions (if they were serious or not) one could earn rating power, is that good ?
EDIT: I think that the 0-10 rating system could be replaced by a 0-5 star sort of thing. Maybe you could even make it so that the more stars a user gets, the more "popular" they become.
That's actually not really necessary. They get popular automatically when getting good rates.
Posted by Treeki
I don't know if it's a good idea to show who made specific ratings because it might put people off from voting.
Well, that would be my intension for trolls. However, if the raters are publicly to be seen, their justification should be visible as well and with enough advanced rating knowledge ("rating power"/"rating seriousness") one can see that the rate is no troll rate.
EDIT:
Just got a very good idea for big hacks. Is it possible to let us upload a custom website (html and Image stuff)? That would be great because I would pay otherwise for this. _________________________
If you live for money, you never will be really happy.
If you live for success, you never will find an end.
If you live for your hobby, your life will be colorless.
If you live for your own/amusement, you won't find a sense in your life or you'll get problems.
Though, if you live for others, life will be precious and can also be positive.
EDIT:
Just got a very good idea for big hacks. Is it possible to let us upload a custom website (html and Image stuff)? That would be great because I would pay otherwise for this.
That's kinda like my idea! I think it would be really cool, being able to make a website for it! _________________________
.
. So wen it takes a screenshot is it in HD? As well if you shouldn't find a way to make it not squashed I say still release it, it'd still be good for screenshots and it'd be good for taking screenshots of bugs from Newer 
